The "new" church at Logie where William and Margaret were married

Across the valley from Stirling, and just behind the crag of the Wallace monument (our great-grandfather William was a stone mason and likely worked on this monument) is the parish church of Logie.  

The "new church" was built in 1800 after the Old Kirk of Logie became too decrepit to be used.  

William Gilmour and Margaret Robertson (our great-grandfather and great-grandmother) were married at Logie Church in 1878. The photos above were taken by Tom Henry and show the inside of the church and the churchyard.

Tom visited the Logie church in March, 2008; he also visited the Old Kirk and its graveyard. The Old Kirk lies a little ways up the road from the "new church". Read more about this in the post about his visit (Tom Henry's notes on his visit to Scotland) 

Shortly after they were married, William and Margaret's first child, Jean, was born (1878).  Nine children followed (including my grandfather James in 1882). Sadly, one child (Margaret, perhaps a twin to James?) died as an infant in 1882; another boy, David, died at six years of age in 1896.  

"During the late 1800s, thousands of children throughout Great Britain died of typhus, scarlet fever and cholera. In fact, it was only after 1914 that there was a great transition from the age-old pattern of very high mortality caused by infectious diseases, poor nutrition and heavy labour to our more contemporary experience of deaths associated with viral diseases, functional disorders or old age." (Benson, John, Working Class in England, 1875-1914).   

What must it have been like for Margaret and William to have 10 children? And then to have two die so young? It's hard to imagine a time when families were so large (ours was considered large, and we were only 5 kids!) and when it was just a commonplace that most families would lose at least one infant or child. 

Family trees...coming soon to a theatre near you....

Stirling High School

High school in Stirling - the Gilmour boys - James, George and William -  and perhaps some of the girls attended this school before their father died (1893), and they emigrated to Canada.

If you enlarge the picture, you'll see the astrological symbols carved around the doorway - strange for a school! 

Maps of Perthshire

The "Porch Photo" - Gilmour family

This is the "porch picture" Tom Henry refers to in his history of the Gilmours. I believe Tom got the photo from Esson Bruce, and that the photo was taken in 1912. 

Back row from left:      George; James; unknown; William; Unknown 

Middle row from left:    Bella; Margaret with baby Willie Bruce on her lap; Helen; Jean

Front row from left:      unknown; John; Mary; unknown; unknown

Maybe one of the men is Esson and Willie's Dad, Samuel?  

Blackford from Tom's Trip to Scotland, March 2008

The first photo shows Blackford from the air. The second shows the Blackford Hotel which was there before 1716 (see Tom's notes), while the third shows the inside of the Blackford Hotel pub. Nice to think that perhaps our male ancestors enjoyed a pint or two here - the modern decor and furniture make it hard to imagine that the hotel is haunted by a ghost named George. The fourth photo is of the moors above Blackford - a chilly place when the wind is blowing. And the last shows the Blackford churchyard. 

Tom Henry's notes on his visit to Scotland, March 2008

Notes from trip to Scotland 8 and 9 March 2008

I went to London with Laurie on the 7^th and stayed overnight. She stayed in London, and I flew up to Edinburgh on Saturday morning.   I rented a car and drove north about an hour to the village of Blackford, where our ancestors lived till about 1870.  I have put on the disk as photo #1 the air photo of Blackford I found on the web.  To put the photos in context, I suggest you read this first, then see the photos as a slide show. I numbered them so they should all come up in order.

I had found a lead while I was digging about on the Internet that suggested that Robert Gilmour (married 1787 in Blackford) was the son of James Gilmour and Geiles Crawford of Auchterarder.  Auchterarder is the next village to the east towards Perth.  I went to Auchterarder and had a look around. There is only a fairly modern church, and the graveyard dates back to only the early 1900s.  With some time on my hands, I headed north to Creiff, which is the biggest town around that part of Perthshire.  I checked the Creiff graveyard, and again found graves back to only about 1900.  And no Gilmours to be seen. So, back to Blackford, for a quick visit to the ancient churchyard up on the hill above the village.  I found a Gilmour grave that I had missed last time-----I have not dug around to see if this John Gilmour is a relative of ours……a brother of one of our guys.  The reason I found the grave this time is that the sun was shining briefly and a previously unreadable tombstone became somewhat readable. I also found some Finlaysons that may be  brothers of Isabella Finlayson, mother of William Gilmour.  I need to check my census records for that one. The dates seem right.

On Saturday before dinner I went to the Blackford Inn, which I had not visited before. This is on “the other” street in Blackford.  (I was staying in the Blackford Hotel, see the photos.)  The proprietors were the only people there, so I had a beer and chatted to them about the history. They know that the pub dates from 1716, because they found a historical record that notes that the government troops who were in Scotland in 1716 to put down the first Jacobite rebellion burned Auchterarder and Blackford to the ground, except for the Blackford Inn, because they needed somewhere to stay.  The owners assured me that their street is the one called Old Street in the census when our guys were there (1840, etc).   They also told me the pub is haunted.  It looks like it should be. I can’t remember the names of the proprietors, but the male ghost is named George.

On Sunday morning I headed off to Stirling, which is only about 20 minutes away.  I had contacted the Stirling Council and found the locations of the graves of William Gilmour and Maggie Ann Gilmour. They are buried in the same “lair” in one of the oldest cemeteries in Stirling, Ballengeich.  It is quite a spectacular and peaceful place, sitting just below the wall of the castle, and high above the valley of the Allen river.   There are no tombstones marking the Gilmour grave (tombstones were for the rich).   In the photos, the grave location is marked by a little bunch of daffodils that I brought.  You will also see photos of a little wren who followed me around while I was looking at the graveyard. 

I took some other photos in Stirling.  One of them (#33 on the CD) is a view across the valley to the Wallace monument, which William may have helped to build (may be the reason why he moved to the Stirling area).  I sent a letter to the Masons Grand Lodge in Stirling to ask if they have records of the names of the Masons who worked on the monument.  They told me they do not, but if he was a mason, there is a very good chance he did work on it.  There were hundreds of masons employed in building it.

In Stirling, I went around to see Bayne Street and Bruce Street, where the family lived from before 1880 to at least 1898 when William died.  You will also see some photos of 27 Queen Street, where David Gilmour, Williams brother, lived in 1898, and of 27 Barnton Street, where they lived sometime after 1898 (address from a schoolbook of my grandfather’s).   I took a photo of the high school which James, William, George and maybe the girls would have attended. 

In the photo view across the valley (#33), just behind the crag of the Wallace monument is the parish church of Logie.  It was built in 1800, when the Old Kirk of Logie became too decrepit to be used.  William Gilmour and Margaret Robertson were married at Logie Church in 1878. I went to the Logie church just as the service was ending and was lucky to meet one of the church people (I don’t know his job title: I don’t know much about these deans, vergers, etc.   Only about priests and choir boys……….)   Anyhow, this man took me around the church and showed me the sights, and also told me about the Old Kirk, a couple of hundred yards up a little road.   The latter has a churchyard with some remarkable 17^th century tombstones, still very legible.   I went around the new Logie graveyard; did not find any Gilmours, or any Fyfes but did find a couple of Robertsons.  (Margaret Robertsons parents were John Robertson and Jane Fyfe. That’s where Jane Fyfe Gilmour,  the oldest daughter of Margaret and William, got her name.)   On the wall of the church there is a plaque thanking a Mr. Fyfe, who served the church for many years and passed away recently.  I asked if there were lots of Fyfes around, and they said there were not. There was one elderly Fyfe lady (widow of the guy on the plaque) who had been at the service that just ended.  I gave the man a photocopy of the marriage record of Margaret and William (which shows the names of their parents) and asked him to give it to Mrs. Fyfe.  I asked that if she thought she was related to our Jane Fyfe, to contact me. 

After Logie, I drove a few miles to the east to the village of Menstrie. That is where Margaret and William lived when they were married.  Not much there…..most of the old buildings have been replaced.  I was planning to go look at Alloa, where the Robertsons came from, but it was blowing and sleeting pretty well at the time, so I suspended the research and went for a beer and a soup at a pub. 

Hope you enjoy the photos.

Best wishes

Tom (Henry) 

Tom Henry's Research on Gilmour History (November, 2007)

Like most genealogy researchers, I dug through the history of the Gilmours in a front to back fashion, going from the present back into history. I started with my mother and my Aunt Jean telling me when and where my grandparents had been born, then traced backward using birth and death certificates, census, lots of romping around the Internet, and a couple of visits to Scotland to walk the ground. The material below is organized chronologically starting with the earliest contact I was able to find. You should refer to the chart (family tree) to see the flow of this, and also the map to see the relationships of the towns or farms where our ancestors lived. 

The first ancestor I was able to find was not a Gilmour but the family of the first Gilmour wife who I was able to identify for certain. 

Henry Stewart was born in 1695 in the parish of Muthill, at a place  called Ballah. If you look on a current map, Ballah has become Balloch, and it is a couple of miles northwest of Muthill. It is a mixed farm in very fertile country, which back in the 1600s would have been worked by quite a few farm families. There is no village, just a collection of ancient farm buildings. I did not check, but the farm at Balloch is almost certainly part of the Drummond estate: Caste Drummond is about 2 km away. 

Henry Stewart married a girl name Jane Bayne, and they had four children. One of those was Mary, born in 1739. Mary Bayne was married to Duncan Sharp in Muthill, the closest market town (and church) in 1761. In 1764, they had a daughter named Helen. Helen Sharp married Robert Gilmour in 1787 at Muthill. This is the first entry of a Gilmour onto the stage. I have tried various avenues to follow Robert back in time, but with no conclusion. There was no census at that time, and public recording of births, marriages and deaths did not start in Scotland until 1855. Using the Scottish old parish records that are available from the Scottish government, I can find 3 or 4 Robert Gilmours who could be "our guy", but none of them are from Perthshire, and I cannot prove that any of them are "our Robert". 

There is a story in the family that the Gilmours originated in Lewis, so it may be that Robert was the first of the family to "immigrate" to the mainland. Even finding the parish record of his death would not be much use, since it would not note where or when he was born. The Lewis connection is quite possible, as ithe western highlands, because the Gilmours were a part of Clan Morrison (Glen Morriston is west of Loch Ness). The name Gilmour is a modification of a Norse name, so that would support the Isle of Lewis idea.

I have photos of the town of Muthill, the ancient church of Muthill (lots of Baynes buried there) and of Balloch. See the map of Balloch and Muthill. At Muthill, there is a church built in the mid-1800s. When I visited, the people at Muthill Museum called a very nice man named Jamie McGregor, and he came over and picked me up at he museum and took me for a tour of the church, including giving me access to the parish records. I did not find any Gilmours in the parish register, which leads me to believe that the Gilmours were not from there. 

Robert and Helen Gilmour

After they were married, Robert and Helen lived in a farm called Moor of Panholes, just north of the little village of Blackford, Perthshire (see the maps, old and new). Blackford is a few km south of Muthill, on the old road between Perth and Stirling. They had four children between 1789 and 1799, all of who were christened in Blackford. The record of all the births is on the same page of the register. This is because the original Blackford records were burned in a fire in the session clerk's house (found some notes about this in the parish records). The records ere transcribed sometime between 1795 and 1799 because their son Robert, born 1799, is kind of squeezed in after James, who was born in 1795. 

Blackford is a very quaint little town, with a modern distillery on the outskirts. There is a very old ruined church and churchyard just outside the town. There is a much newer (maybe around 1800) ruined church in town, and a new (ish) church. When I visited Blackford, I was not able to get into the church or track down the local history buffs. 

Robert and Helen lived in Moor of Panholes. On the same page of the register of the births of their children, there is a family at a place called Wester Panholes. See the old map - these are the names of farms near Blackford. Wester Panholes and Moor of Panholes are where West Moor is shown on the modern map; just to the east of the Gleneagles golf course. The moor is a sheep farm and has probably been so for hundreds of years. The owner of West Moor is a Canadian from Calgary who visits once a year. The caretaker is a friendly guy who was initially suspicious of why I was hanging around the place. His wife's maiden name is Gilmour! He was quite surprised when I showed him that in the parish record it was Moor of Panholes, and not Muir of Panholes, the Scottish spelling. I checked the Decennial Services to Heirs and also the Register of Testaments looking for land that had been inherited from or by Robert, or the record of probate. Neither was there. That said, I never found any indication that the Gilmours ever owned land in Scotland. In fact, if they had, they would probably still be there! 

James Gilmour and Isabella Finlayson

Robert and Helen Gilmour had four children, John, Elizabeth, James and Robert. This is a bit unusual: the first girl was usually named after her maternal grandmother. However, there are three years between the births of John and Elizabeth, so there may have been a Jane born who did not survive. Another clue is that in normal circumstances, the first boy is named after his paternal grandfather. That means that Robert's father's given name could have been John. I will use this information when I take up the search again. 

James was married twice. The first marriage was to Christian McNab in Blackford on June 8, 1828. See the marriage record from Blackford parish. Look at the record above - marriage not completed because the bride ran away with another man! Things were pretty exciting in Blackford in 1828!  

Up to 1838, James and Christian had five children. In the 1851 census of Blackford, James was living with the children from his marriage to Christian and with children from his second marriage to Isabella. This means that Christian must have died sometime between 1838 (birth of John) and 1844 (birth of Anne). I did not find her grave in the churchyard at Blackford, but it could well be there. I have not bothered to look for the death certificate of Christian between 1838 and 1844 or of the death records of one of her children to find out about Christian's parents.  

James' second marriage was to Isabella Finlayson on May 5, 1844, when James was 49 years old. They had four children, one of whom, William, was born in 1846. 

James was shown as a cotton weaver on his death certificate and on that of Isabella. On James' death record, the entry above his record is for a Robert Gilmore at the same address, death on November 22, 1863. This Robert is 11 years older than James, his parents were Henry Gilmore and Christian Gilmore nee Miller. This is not the Robert who was James' father - he is not old enough - and it is not Robert, James' brother. I tried to prove that this Robert was a cousin of James but could not. The 1861 census should show the relationship. Note that this Robert Gilmore's death was witnessed by his brother William. Should also find that William's death record and may be able to find his birth? Why do all this? Trying to track down James' father, Robert the Elusive! 

Note that Isabella Finlayson's mother's maiden name was also Miller. Blackford was not and still is not a big place. There were lots of Millers in the Blackford churchyard. 

On her death certificate in 1883, it shows that Isabella died in Blackford: her death was witnessed by her son William, of Stirling. So after the marriage of her son William Gilmour, the Mom still lived in Blackford. In the census of 1881, Isabella was living in Blackford with her daughter Anne, who was widowed, and her granddaughter Isabella, who was Anne's daughter. That Isabella would have been a cousin of Esson's Mom, Bella.  

The registrar who signed Isabella Finlayson's death record in 1883 was John Gilmour, who may have been her stepson.  

William and Margaret Gilmour

William was the son of James Gilmour and Isabella Finlayson. He was born in February 1846 and died in 1893. In 1878, William married Margaret Robertson. Margaret was from Alloa, in Clackmannanshire (just east of Perthshire), and her parents were George Robertson and Jane Fife of Alloa. William and Margaret were married in Menstrie, near Alloa. It appears that they moved right away to Stirling, as their daughter Jean Fife Gilmour was born there the same year (1878). 

William was  a stone mason. He and his growing family lived at 19 Bruce Street and 10 Bayne Street (big tenement apartments in tasteful granite, right around the corner from each other) while William was still alive. William's and Margaret's children (10) with dates of birth were: 

Jean                1878

Isabella          1880

Margaret       1882 (died 1882; twin of James?) 

James             1882 

George           1885 (Jack and Jim called him the swearing uncle) 

William          1888 

David              1890 (died 1896) 

Helen             1892 

John               1894 

MaryAnne    1896 

There were a lot of very young kids when William Gilmour died in 1898. At least there were some older ones who could earn some money. I have a school book that belonged to my grandfather, William, and it shows two other Stirling addresses in it. It could be that they had to move to smaller homes after father William died. 

The immigration to Canada took place in multiple waves. We know from Esson that his mom, Isabella, and Jean came to Canada in 1911, and that they had been working in Edinburgh as maids in the house of a wealthy liquor manufacturer. John Callaghan believes that Helen Gilmour (his mother) came to Canada in 1912. We know from some pictures that they were in Canada in the summer of 1912 as there is a picture of Willie Bruce (Bella's first son) at a few months old. Willie was born in April, 1912. 

I have not made an effort to find William Gilmour's grave in Stirling but will do so the next time I am in Scotland. 

The Gilmours in Saskatoon 

Most of the information on the early days in Saskatoon comes from Esson Bruce or from the Henderson Directories that are held in the Saskatoon Library and in the National Archives of Canada in Ottawa. 

We know from Esson that his Mom, Isabella, and her sister Jean came to Canada in May, 1911. Esson has his Mom's bible which was given to her by her employers with best wishes for her journey to Cnaada and dated May, 1911. Isabella and Samuel Esson Bruce were married on August 1, 1911 by the Reverend Crowther, and we have a photo of them on that day. Esson has their wedding picture, and in it can be seen Jean (Isabella's sister), and her brothers James, George and William. 

So, the theory is that the three boys arrived first, and then sent word that the coast was clear, maybe in 1908 or 1909. Esson has the "porch picture" from 1912, where his older brother Willy is sitting on Margaret Gilmour's lap, and Helen and Jean and MaryAnne are all there.

Since Helen, Margaret and MaryAnne were not in the 1911 wedding photo, it is likely that they arrived in late 1911 or in 1912. I will try to find Jean and Isabella in the steamship records for 1911, then move on to see if I can find the boys in another earlier steamship record. 

There was a census of Saskatoon in 1905, and I did not find them in that one. The 1911 census is now online, so I am going to search it to see if I can find any of our family. 

No Gilmours are shown in the Henderson directory prior to 1911, and in 1911, there are two who are not our family - James, an electrician and RJ, a traveller. 

In 1912, the house at 428 Avenue E South does not show up in the Henderson Directory of Saskatoon, but Esson is sure it was built in 1912 (obviously, after the Directory was edited). In 1912, the following family members were living at 514 Avenue E South with their occupations as shown in the Directory: 

William               Clerk, Arctic Ice Company, 131 19th Street East 

George                Carpenter, CNR 

James                 Engineer, Power Plant 

John                    Printer, Daily Phoenix newspaper 

Margaret            widow of William 

Mary 

Note that there is no Isabella, Jean or Helen shown. Bella was already married to Samuel Esson Bruce. The Bruce's first child, Willy, was born in 1912, and we have a photo of him as an infant on Margaret's knee at 428 Avenue E South. Helen is clearly an omission, as she almost certainly arrived with her Mom, and is in the picture with Willy Bruce and Margaret dated 1912. 

In the 1913 Directory, all the Gilmours were in Saskatoon and living at 428 Avenue E South (except of course, Bella, who was already married). Three of the girls are shown: 

Nellie (aka Helen)      working at Modern Steam Laundry 

Mary                                working at Modern Steam Laundry 

Jeannie                           occupation not shown but living at 428 Avenue E South 

In 1915, the directory does not show George, Jean or Margaret. I think Margaret was an omission, and that George and Jean had both married by then. 

In 1917, there is a bit of a weirdness, worthy of trying to track down some day. George was living at 227 Avenue E South, a home that he owned. 428 Avenue E South is shown as being owned by a person named Murray. All of the Gilmours who were not married, including William, were living at 1002 Weldon Street. What happened? Did they fall on hard times? Did it have something to do with Jean dying that year? 

In 1918, the Directory shows the family (except George and Jean) back at 428 Avenue E South, with Margaret as the owner. 

Margaret died in 1924. She was a pillar of the church and of the Temperance Society in Saskatoon. There was a very nice big article in the Saskatoon Phoenix when she passed away. She had been back to see her brothers and sisters in Scotland just two years before she died, in 1922. It will be worth trying to track her brothers and sisters as we may still have relatives living in Scotland. 

William and Annie 

William R. Gilmour is shown in the 1918 directory as the Manager of the Arctic Ice Company, and he and Annie were living on Spadina Crescent. 

William and Annie moved around a bit after they were married. They were at 1018 Avenue B North in 1920, and at 417Avenue C South from at least 1925 until 1930. In 1932, they were at 321 32nd Street West, and in 1933 moved to 604 Walmer Road where they stayed until 1967. The Walmer Road house was not there in 1931. In 1932, it was owned by a family named Tierney, and in 1933, William, Annie and their four girls moved in. Must be great to live in the same house for 35 years! 

William and Annie had four girls: Jean, Sheila, Annabelle (Tom's Mom) and Connie. 

 Jean Fife Gilmour 

Jean was the oldest of Margaret and William Gilmour's children; she was born in 1878. After arriving in Saskatoon, she married Edward (Ted) Smith, who was head of the Power House. James Gilmour worked for Ted Smith and introduced them, according to Esson Bruce. Jean died in 1917 at the age of 39 and is buried in the Woodlawn Cemetery in Saskatoon (listed as Jean Fyffe Gilmour Smith). She is remembered on the same gravestone as her Mom, Margaret, but her husband is not buried in that cemetery. Esson says that "something was up" when Jean died (maybe her marriage was breaking up?), and that nobody talked about her very much. Strange for such a close family. The Saskatoon Star just notes that she died. Esson thinks she may have died in childbirth. 

Helen Gilmour  

Helen is the only one of the Gilmours who did not spend her life in Canda, other than the two who died as children in Scotland. 

Helen met William Callaghan while she was still in Scotland. Margaret, her Mom, would not let her stay in Scotland and get married, so Helen went to Canada with the rest but soon went back to Scotland and married William. 

Helen had three children, one of whom died very young. Her daughter, Jean, is the mother of Katie Venturini. Her son John lives in Cambridge, UK and is married to Elizabeth (1964) - they have three children. 

Helen passed away in 1976. 

To be continued...

Tom Henry, November 2007